On June 30th FAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research) posted two articles http://www.fairlds.org/ and one commentary attacking Rod Meldrum personally and attempting to discredit him by using innuedo, conjecture, and assertions from a private and personal email correspondence to a small group of supporters, inviting them to participate in a preliminary meeting to form a new organization called the Foundation for Indigenous Research and Mormonism or The FIRM Foundation.
FAIR President Scott Gordon said that the articles were not an attack, yet Ogden Standard Examiner newpaper columnist Doug Gibson, an unbias reporter, after reading FAIR’s review states “the scholars have launched a counterattack” and “The summary…doesn’t go after Meldrum’s theories much…” and finally, “Instead, it portrays Meldrum as a crackpot, a man who claims to receive direct revelation from God on Book of Mormon matters and who insinuates that God has told him not to try and convert Mormon scholars.”
For those of you who have seen the DVD, do you feel that this is an accurate portrayal of the DVD presentation that you have reviewed?
If you have both seen the DVD and read the FAIR articles, please post your comments.
If you have not seen the DVD nor seen the FAIR reviews, please withhold your comments or post in another category.
Rod,
To answer your question, I do not believe you to be a crackpot. I think you are a very intelligent man. Nevertheless, yes, I came away with the impression that you use personal revelation as an appeal to authority. If it was NOT an appeal to authority, why even mention it? This is my personal opinion, I’m not a spokesman for the Church or for FAIR.
I’m on the FAIR members list, and we discussed at length, if it is good and necessary to write anything about your work, or if we just should leave it alone. Initially I was one who claimed that nothing good can come out of publicly answering to it. Later on I was convinced, that something needs to be done.
Primarily I was convinced by the actions of your followers. They claimed that by saying a word against your work, FAIR is in opposition to the Church, to the Prophet Joseph Smith and to current General Authorities. They claimed that you finally gave “those scholars” a beating.
It was what your followers claimed that you said that made FAIR decide to take sides.
It was your attack on FARMS that put devout scholars and you on opposite sides.
And with this thread, you are trying to misrepresent FAIR.
On the forefront you say you want posters to compare FAIR’s presentation of your DVD with your DVD itself. But then you erect a strawman. You take Gibson’s words, claim that because he is unbiased (proof?), his impression goes as a shortcut for what FAIR’s response really does. Then you pit Gibson’s impressions against your DVD. Classical strawman argumentation.
Now, it may well be, that your appeal to authority and your strawman argumentation come from a lack of experience in the field you are playing, it may also be that you do it intentionally. If it is unintentional, you should first learn the rules, before you publish what others (including your “unbiased” witness, Mr. Gibson) must understand to be a personal attack on faithful scholars.
But if you do it intentionally, then your actions are dangerous.
I will not judge you. Your actions will speak louder than your words, either way.
Comment by Rene Krywult — September 4, 2008 @ 7:47 am |
So the bottom line, for me at least is this and I freely admit I may get it wrong, but Bro Meldrum claims to have received revelation for his position. Am I correct here?
The Church does not have a position for BoM geography and as such there is no official position.
Meldrum, who is NOT our sustained prophet or even close to one, claims to have received revelation that rightfully should be coming from the prophet.
Am I missing something here????? Or is Meldrum???
Comment by BrianR — September 4, 2008 @ 9:42 am |
I have seen the DVD and FAIR’s response. I seem to remember a comment in the DVD that you encouraged people to examine your supporting evidence. Nevertheless, I don’t see you welcoming criticism of the evidence you suggested be checked. I find that confusing. If FAIR is doing what you suggested be done, then they are fair. If you don’t believe your research can withstand scrutiny and don’t want to hold it to the light of scholarly examination, then they are unfairly holding you to a standard that you don’t believe applies.
Of course, if you don’t believe in science or scholarship, I don’t understand how your theory can be based on it. As I noted in my question in the other post, I am confused. I post here only to make sure that you know that I have seen the DVD and do not question without the requisite background.
Comment by Brant Gardner — September 4, 2008 @ 9:39 pm |
Just a few months ago FAIR produced a DVD in which the X lineage was used as evidence of Middle Eastern DNA in Mesoamerica (http://store.fairlds.org/prod/p1893036073.html).
Now FAIR criticizes Rodney for his use of X lineage research to support his theory, claiming that he is selective with his use of the evidence.
So its OK for FAIR to be selective in their use of evidence but not Rodney? Or are we going to see a retraction by FAIR of their claims in their own DVD?
Comment by Simon Southerton — September 5, 2008 @ 1:44 pm |
Simon,
I’m sure you didn’t watch this video, and that just one of your friends told you about it. As a scholarly trained mind, you would not use gross misrepresentation to discredit your opponents, I believe.
Yes, the FAIR video talks about the X lineage. It also says that the appearance of it in the Americas is too early to prove the BoM story, but it proves transoceanic contacts, where most scholars believe that the Bering strait was the only way into the Americas.
Meldrum on the other side uses the X but altogether dismisses the dating for the migration of the X, and claims it is a DNA-proof for the Lehi-Immigration. This is using science out of context. Or in other words: Abusing science.
You as a man of fame who even wrote a book about DNA, surely know the difference, so you cannot have watched the FAIR video and still make such a blatantly false accusation.
Also, I think it is strange that you as one of the “high priests” of ex- and anti-mormonism try to shield Meldrum from scholarly scrutiny. Or is this just a “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” action?
Comment by Rene Krywult — September 5, 2008 @ 9:09 pm |
Rene,
I have watched the DVD. You seem to have missed a very prominent statement by John Tvedtnes right at the beginning of the DVD.
“There is direct DNA evidence for the Book of Mormon. The haplogroup X, which has been trashed by a lot of the critics, saying “Well, no, it’s also found in Asia”, no-o-o, the type of X that is found in Mesoamerica is, in fact, from the Middle East.”
Maybe you watched a different DVD or you dozed off 2 minutes into it?
Simon
Comment by Simon Southerton — September 5, 2008 @ 11:35 pm |
I think Rod has received personal revelation on a subject. That revelation being that Joseph Smith is and was a Prophet of God. I think Joseph knew more about this subject of the Book of Mormon than any other person. Luckily I have received that same revelation.
Dan
Comment by Dan Lowman — September 6, 2008 @ 4:59 pm |
Simon,
Just so you know, the DVD has been edited according to John Tvedtnes’ desires, and the edited version will be used once all the existing DVDs are gone. The existing DVDs include a sticker directing people to the FAIR Errata page for more information:
http://en.fairmormon.org/FAIR_Errata
In addition, the link to the Errata page is on the product page in the FAIR Bookstore.
Would you be kind enough to provide the URL for the errata information relative to your book?
-Allen
Comment by Allen Wyatt — September 6, 2008 @ 6:23 pm |
Simon,
FAIR acknowledges it when mistakes are made. Check our their “Errata” page, which gives a correction of what was said, and it will be edited out in future printings.
See Simon, you can learn something from FAIR
Tyler
Comment by Tyler — September 6, 2008 @ 6:58 pm |
While waiting for Dr. Southerton to fix the many glaring errors in his book, which have been repeatedly pointed out, we have an errata page of our own for it.
See here.
Comment by Greg Smith — September 8, 2008 @ 12:59 am |
I was just about to post that FAIR has just added an Errata page but Allen and Greg beat me too it. I’m sure John Tvedtnes will appreciate you doing that. But for the record, it did take you almost 2 months to put the page up (John emailed you the retraction on 17th June) and it wasn’t there when I posted my note above, a few days ago. When you pointed out errors in Rodney’s DVD he acted immediately.
If you have criticisms of my presentation of the science in Losing a Lost Tribe I’d be happy to look at them. I trust you will allow me two months to acknowledge my errors?
I’m not interested in discussing your interpretations of the Book of Mormon that support the Limited Geography. LDS apologists can’t even agree about that. I’m quite happy to watch you debate that with Rodney and the many other Mormons who share his viewpoint.
Simon
Comment by Simon Southerton — September 8, 2008 @ 5:08 am |
Oops, PS – didn’t want to leave the impression that the Errata page wasn’t listed where it now is when Simon wrote his note above. It was added in the revision as of 12:59, 20 August 2008 (previously it had been filed under ‘other.’)
So, it’s right where it’s always been since long before you posted. And, the page existed from 7 July 2008, as I said.
Greg
Comment by Greg Smith — September 8, 2008 @ 10:05 am |
Sounds like you’re all very bitter people. This may sound cliche, but, why don’t you prey about it. No one needs permission from the First Presidency, to receive inspiration on truth, that may or may not be recognized by the church. Remember church doctrine states that the Church does not recognize all truth.
Comment by Ben Maddux — February 27, 2009 @ 5:38 am |
Joseph Smith said “The Book of Mormon is the most correct book in the world.” Why do we need a DVD with DNA evidence to make the point that the Land of Promise in the US is known only by some researchers. The Scriptures give us all we need. I’m unimpressed.
Comment by Robert — May 11, 2009 @ 9:28 pm |
I am no scholar. I didn’t even totally understand all the scientific offerings, but I have listened and read both parties in question. It boils down to this: I know what I felt when I heard Brother Meldrum’s presentation. He had The Spirit with him. I cannot say the same for the FAIR article. I couldn’t believe they could come to such an opposite conclusion when presented with the same information! I am content that the peaceful feelings of light and understanding that came to me (and to a number of my family members) were our answer and it doesn’t matter what forces combine to convince me otherwise. I thank the DNA Evidence team from the bottom of my heart for enlightening my mind about THE BOOK I have always known to be true, but have always accepted that I didn’t really understand.
Comment by Bonnie Searing — June 12, 2009 @ 3:39 pm |
It is not hard to understand the criticism coming in from established groups. They have built up quite a cottage industry and body of information that is sold and resold making a tidy profit for sum and livings for others.
Along comes an upstart with some new information and rather than evaluate the content they evaluate the danger to their own group and attack.
This information was fantastic and very easy to understand. It fits very well with what we already know and I give much credit to those that have bucked the mainstream to assemble it and study it and bring it to us.
It makes much more sense than previous thoughts of South America, then Central America.
Good job folks!
Comment by Jinx — June 22, 2009 @ 7:09 pm |
I watched and appreciated Rod’s entire DVD, then went online to see what the critics say, and read a few of the FAIR articles, all of which were designed to discredit and criticize Rod’s methods and approach. Why be only a critic? My religious heritage is that we as individuals can and should seek for truth wherever it can be found, and FAIR gave me nothing to even consider. Rod does not claim to speak for the Church, though he makes clear the sincerity of his feelings and research–absolutely nothing wrong with that! In contrast, FAIR seems very stuck (with religious fervor) in its own view of what a valid scientific approah MUST have.
Rod does not claim that any one item absolutely proves his assertions, though FAIR implies that he does. Archaeology is all about evidence, not proof. Rod is only saying that the huge preponderance of evidence points to the USA, and I am inclined to agree. More importantly, I am grateful that he is willing to pursue this research starting from the very best information available to him.
Any presentation cannot contain all the research, and FAIR tries to hold Rod’s feet to the fire when some things are incomplete, which is simply not fair. My encouragement to Rod is to publish his works in printed form that can be consumed by any honest seeker of the truth.
Comment by mikethurber — July 9, 2009 @ 2:16 am |